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Post by JenGe on Apr 30, 2006 8:01:42 GMT -5
Davethejew has raised this issue on the Sin City thread... and I've decided that since it is a tricky one I would leave it up to the board to make the final decision. Here are the two arguments... why are the irish hitman and stuka misc? stuka was had an arrow in the chest and an arrow in the head thats a kill Well, that's a tricky one. I didn't see him die did you? Do you know how most people die from arrow wounds? Blood loss. I think he clearly could have survived those wounds since they really did not show a "confirmed" kill. It is left ambiguous and as such really cannot count as an actual "kill". Did you see the movie? the arrow went through his head like through the back of his head and out the front Yes, I have seen it and he obviously is not dying or dead. He might die off screen though but that would not count as a "cut way" since it could be anytime later. The filmmakers chose to take this comedic, almost toon direction with the character. His kill remains uncertain but I have posted a thread and will leave the final decision to the members of the board...
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Wraith
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Post by Wraith on Apr 30, 2006 12:57:15 GMT -5
I think Stukas wounds were too much of a cartoony slapstick joke to be counted as a body. It's kinda like when Daffy Duck gets blown up with a shotgun and has a big hole in his body, but he's still alive.
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Post by davethejew on Apr 30, 2006 15:11:03 GMT -5
So now when kills are comedic, we don't count them? SO therefore any comedy movie with kills isn't counted? Let me make sure i'm getting this right. Also we counted the shotgun blast to the stomach by marsellus to zed as a kill, even though the dying of zed wasn't seen on screen. Pulp Fiction is a comic book movie, based around and made as an honor to pulp books and comics of the 30s-60s. How bout Stansfield being blown up in The Professional? Do we see a body? No. Do we see him die? No. Yet it is counted as a kill.
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Post by chuckwithatruck on Apr 30, 2006 15:24:28 GMT -5
the attack should indeed be counted as a kill. The best way to look at such issues is to examine the obvious results prima fascia. In other words if one were to look it would be concluded almost universally that A results in B.
As such, when examining whether actions that obviously lead to death should count if indeed all steps are taken to imply such a death then yes. If it were not the case, then in the real world there would be alot of murder trials that got acquitted because there wasnt a videotape to show it
secondly, death is death comedic or otherwise. If the argument against it counting was indeed true then you pretty much couldnt count anything in a movie such as idle hands or american werewolf in london
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Amie
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Post by Amie on Apr 30, 2006 17:17:54 GMT -5
Wow, this is a tough one. I still haven't seen Sin City. But if Dave is right, and there was an arrow through his head, wouldn't it be considered a mortal hit? I just looked over the rules: - Can you see a dead body plainly? count it - Can you see a mortal hit? count it - Did someone die on screen? count it - Was a scene shown and then at the last second "cut away?" count itIf we do it strictly, then "body counts" should be literally counting only bodies that we see plainly die onscreen. But we're also counting "mortal hit counts"... such as cutaways, where we don't see bodies actually dying, but there was a mortal hit. This would beg the question of what would be considered a mortal hit. Which is the purpose of this vote, I guess... to come up with a consensus of general opinion. A definition for "mortal hit" for me would be: "A hit that, in real life or in movie situations, would most likely cause death." I say "most likely," since there is the odd chance that someone could survive it. But the odds against it would be high. Therefore I would go with the odds being against someone surviving. I vote for it as Stuka being a "mortal hit", not necessarily a "body." So then, if we count "mortal hits," we should include it in the body count. Since I haven't seen the movie, you can discard my vote if necessary. Depending on the outcome of this vote, I'll have to go back and change a lot of my counts.
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Wraith
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Post by Wraith on Apr 30, 2006 23:02:22 GMT -5
The wound looks like if it were fatal, he'd be instantly dead, but he just stood there. Still, it could be an implied death. I would've just counted it as an "unconfirmed". I don't think he shows up in the final showdown, but it looks like he just stayed there,dead or alive. Dang, now I'm just not sure.
Hell, I'm willing to throw this. It seems like a tossup anyway, so it's best we leave it to the vote.
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Post by davethejew on May 1, 2006 0:15:13 GMT -5
Your right that he just does stand there, but in other movies (reservoir dogs, returner and tons of others) people are shot in the head and they dont instantly die. And the whole comedic factor doesnt apply, because at the moment i'm doin the kill count for every childs play movie and both silent night deadly night's
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Post by wheels128 on May 2, 2006 9:23:50 GMT -5
Haven't seen it, but it sounds to me from what you guys are saying that Dave's right. Count it.
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Post by JenGe on May 2, 2006 10:24:04 GMT -5
I will leave this voting open for a week (until next Sunday) and then adjust the page if I need to.
Thanks guys!! This is exactly what I need from all of you especially when it come to a disputed count!!!
(I'm sure we'll see more in the future.)
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Post by JenGe on May 8, 2006 8:50:03 GMT -5
The pages have been changed to reflect the vote... Sin City...
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Wraith
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Post by Wraith on May 9, 2006 22:40:20 GMT -5
Don't forget, that kill counts for Miho.
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Post by JenGe on May 10, 2006 14:43:44 GMT -5
Don't forget, that kill counts for Miho. It's been updated. Thanks again guys!!! I'm thrilled to have such a great base of film fans here on the site to help me with this. I could not do this without you!!!
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slash
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Post by slash on Feb 20, 2007 23:52:49 GMT -5
It's a kill,he probaly died off-screen because if you get shot in the head with an arrow,you're dead
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Post by iamthelexx on May 4, 2007 14:11:44 GMT -5
As cartoonish as it looked it's still a kill
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Wraith
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Post by Wraith on May 5, 2007 20:58:28 GMT -5
This issue has been dead for a while. Can we lock this thread? It was a misjudgment on my part and I'm tired of having it brought back to my face.
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Post by JenGe on May 5, 2007 22:21:35 GMT -5
This issue has been dead for a while. Can we lock this thread? It was a misjudgment on my part and I'm tired of having it brought back to my face. No problem...LOCKED.
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